Category: Parent Talk
Hi all,
I was just watching the today show and saw something rather disterbing. In calafornya one of the kerent senitores is working on havveing a bill passed that makes it so that spanking a child is a leggel krime. The maxamom sentence will be a year in jale and a 1 thousand doller fine, and one of the miner peneltys is parinting clases and a investagation by DSS.
What do you guys think, is this a good law or a vary stupid and rong one?
I persinaly think that you should not use spanking for every little thing but as a last rezort for something that needs to be adressed right then and there with forse if you will. Say a child of mine runs out in the rode, darn right there gonna get a smack on the bottom. It's not the law that horafies me so much it's the fact that the state thinks they can come into our homes and tel us how to parent our children.
Well what do you guys think about this?
Let the debates begain!
Tracey
I agree with you. This is stupid and unwarranted.
Bob
This is beyond rediculas! If you want to spank your own child you should have that right. I mean don't beat the child, but children need to get their butts spanked every now and then. That is why the children today have no respect for their parents or any other adult. You sure wouldn't catch me talking back to my parents, even now that I am older. When I was younger I tried, and I got punished. What is this world coming to?
well, first of all, it figures that this law came from california. whoops, i should have probably just thought that one. anyway, as a veteran mom, i can assure you, that there are many opportunities where spanking is justified. as a friend who is a social worker once told me, they put diapers on toddlers for other things then just to catch the poop. i agree with lupins girl and all the rest of you all.
I have to agree. I am certainly not a parent, but I think that there is nothing wrong with a child being spanked. beatings are a whole different thing, and those are jus tplain wrong. But I took my fair share of swats when I was younger, and I think I was a better person for it.
I'd like to second all the responses above. Its crazy to not spank your children! People don't differentiate between beating and a little spanking.
Spanking, or any punishment, shouldn't be done in anger, but a child needs to know the consequences for disobeying and then hae to face them when he/she does something to deserve them.
Having a child that obeys could someday save their life. If you tell them to not run acrost a parking lot and they do it anyway, they could be killed.
Anyway, a little spanking doesn't hurt anyone.
I don't agree that spanking is necessarily a good punishment. When I was younger spanking didn't really have much affect on my actions. Then again I have a high pain tollerance, so maybe that's it. I do however agree that just outlawing it is uncalled for, and really sounds like a waste of time that the lawmakers could probably spend taking care of more important things.
Gosh I'd not want this law. Spanking is need to get some kids attention. Some don't need it, but or these that do well let's be free to do so. Abuse is another thing, but spanking with love is a must.
Parents should not be told how to raise their kids. As someone before me has said, there is a big difference between physically abusing your child and spanking. Personally, I wouldn't spank for anything, but that's just me. Every child reacts differently to certain punishments, I suppose.
I would never spank a child either my own or anyone else's. I don't agree with it at all and think that there are much better and more effective methods that many parents are too lazy to learn or not compitant enough to implement as they are more complex. It's often a tendency to go for the option that doesn't require you to read the books, to understand child psychology, behaviorism, conditioning or the very different ways in which infants and children communicate. The only physical intervention I agree with is pinning or lifting a child as a restraint or slapping a hand away from a hot surface, a snake or the family cat's tail which has been pulled several times in succession. I would never do more than smack my dog on the nose if she is mouthing or scavinges and that same principle of limited physical disiplin carries over to how I view other animals and yes, children. A child that is hit learns to hit. Redirection is the answer along with positive reinforcement, consistancy and appropriate and clear punishments that a child will understand. If I see a parent hit or spank their child in public I will call them on it. If it is severe, done with anything other than the hand and anywhere other than the bottom I will report them. If someone who's child I am caring for instructs me to spank their child if they perform a certain behavior I will refuse and will tell them so right up front. All of that being said I don't think that such an invasive law is a good idea. Educate parents, but don't pass a law that could so easily be abused. I can see people with personal vandetas turning in their ex significant others, their neighbors, their former friends or random strangers they see that are of a race, religion or have a sexual life style they don't agree with, just to cause trouble. I can see children needlessly being taken away from their ignorant but well-meaning parents or their inocent parents who just happened to piss off the wrong person. I mean, proving beating is fairly strait-forward as it leaves marks. Spanking however often leaves no mark, only a faint redness which fades in minutes. Therefore someone could trump up a false accusation, say that it happened more than fifteen or twenty minutes ago and still have the wrongly accused convicted. It's not the law persay that I disagree with, in an ideal society, that is in theory, it would be fine, but I object to the spirit of the law given it's context in our current society. People can spout their platitudes. Spare the rod spoil the child. You should never spank a child in anger. etc But, raising a child who is not spoiled can easily be done with out ever resorting to corpral punishment. Also, no matter what someone says, if they hit their child at all it will often be done in annoyance and soon in anger and then it will become a pattern. Alright, that's enough of that. I'm going to go eat my calzone that this little monster growing inside of me insisted I order even though I'm not especially hungry right now. lol
Hmm, I wish I could agree with the above post, but I can't. I've seen it both ways. My dad for example didn't spank, he abused, and to this day I don't respect or even love him. However, my Mom did spank, and I do love and respect her. To this day I may disagree with her, but I'd do it respectfully. I've also seen friends who spank out of anger and no, it doesn't get through to their child. He just turns around and does it again, but I've seen those who don't spank, and those are some of the most out of control children I've ever seen. One time in a store I got fairly seriously hurt do to a parent who simply tried redirection, and the child was having none of it. He sent a sign flying off a stack of dog food across the floor and it slammed into my knee. She tried talking..."Your going to get yourself or someone else hurt...". She tried redirection..."Why don't you pick out the cerial you want to eat...". But the injury still occurred. Also, about a week ago I had my niece and nephew all day. My nephew is 1 and my niece is 3. They were fairly good, but my nephew found my laptop very interesting. I don't know how many times I tried putting him in the midst of a pile of toys, tried playing with him, ETC, but he still went back to the laptop. I tried too lightly smacking his fingers, but when it finally stopped was when I tapped him on the diaper loud enough to startle him. After that he didn't return to it, and he didn't touch it 3 days later when he came back to my house for the afternoon. And, if anyone thinks I should have just let him play with it...Do you have $1500 for me to replace it? I don't, and neither do his parents. Mind you, on the same note, my niece didn't need a spanking. Talking to her or time out works as long as you talk calmly and she understands why she is in trouble. Also, I did not, and never have, spanked a child in anger or even frustration.
There can be terrible parents who do not spank who can not control their children whatsoever. There can also be parents that do not spank that do a great job. It's not just about not spanking, it's about knowing the right methods to use instead, further it's not just about knowing them, it's also about being able to use them correctly because of reading instructive books, taking child psychology or parenting classes and being willing to keep your knolege up-to-date with new studies and parenting magazines so that when new information becomes available that can make you an even more effective parent you will be armed with it. Hmmm, a tap on the diaper? That sounds like a redirection. Sometimes I'll lightly shake a child's shoulder or turn their face to look at me or give them a firm, but gentle rap on the back or the shoulder to get their attention if they've completely tuned me out. That sounds like what you've described and I would not classify that as spanking. Then again, that's just me.
I've heard it said that any striking of a child's backside is spanking...Now, I'd also like to add, I personally do not believe in spankings unless necessary. (1) Every method {or some variation} has been tried and the child still will not cooperate. (2) The action is so dangerous or harmful to him/herself or another that you want the insident to be remembered. And even in the above cases I still believe that a child has the right to know and have it fully explained so that there is no question on why the child was punished. My belief is talk first, spanking last, and in between comes all the others. However, I do believe there are instants where a spanking may be necessary.
And, what incidents would those be?
Last resort for a serious behavior issue, (intentionally putting themselves in danger). An old friend of mine has a little 7year old boy. This boy would constantly go to their apartment complex parking lot, talk to strangers who were there, climb around on motor bikes that were present, ETC. I assisted the parents in talking with him...setting down privilage withdraws...Showing him pictures of kidnapped children...And anything else we could think of(the 4 of us: his parents, my husband and myself). He didn't care, nothing got through, he wanted to do it, so, he did it. Until, he got a spanking. The spanking didn't bruise him, but it did hurt, and he did quit! (Intentionally putting another in danger). IE, throwing items when they've been punished in many ways to prevent the throwing, but the child won't quit. Flying objects can cause many damages; and I'm not thinking of the property damages. Property can be repaired, but eyes, noses, ETC, are much harder (if at all) to repair. Here is another where I would have spanked...My husband's oldest nephew was 3, and he was told the heater stove was hot. In order to test it he placed his baby brother's hand on it, not once, but twice! To this day, (18 years later) the younger brother bares a scar. Playing with weapons (guns, knives, ETC) when a child is old enough to understand what they've been told and taught. Yes, I know weapons should always be kept up and safe from children, but where there is a will, there is a way. Besides, butcher knives can be weapons, and I don't know about you guys, but I don't have the means to lock up all my butcher knives...Fire is another potential weapon, and not something that should ever be played with. Please realize that all of the examples stress the importance of the child being (1) old enough to understand what has been taught them, and (2) Every other method being attempted first.
We could all go on arguing the virtues or not of spanking until this board topic is longer than the yellow pages, but the real issue here is the law that was preposed. I do not believe in spanking, as I have detailed a few times here, but I also do not agree with this law for the reasons given above in one of my earlier posts. Regardless of whether or not you endorse spanking, what do you think of the law?
I don't like it. It's simply one more attempt (and in this case successful attempt) to get involved in the home and everything that goes on with in it.
Absolutely. Does anyone else here feel sort of a 1984 vibe? "Big Brother is watching."
A bit off topic, but if anyone has read the left behind books, you all know about the gc, that's global community, it's happening now, and this law is just more proof.
I was spanked as a kid. I totally believe it helped make me the way I was. I plan to spank my children responsibly.
Hmmm, that's an interesting sentament, but I can't say that I disagree with it. I'd like to find some books on just that "Spanking Responsibly" Very few books endorse it at all, and those that do do not give detailed information on how one is to go about it if they decide that it is acceptable to them and right for their children.
Heather, I'd suggest to you to try a christian bookstore. They have books on parrenting, and they feel strongly about spanking responcibally. I have a feeling you will find something there.
Good idea. Thanks. I'll try Alpha and Omega.
Wow... So much to say about this... I am a complete believer in spanking. I've seen children who have hardly ever been spanked in their lives, and they are terrible brats. I've also seen children who are spanked for every little thing as young children, and they are also brats. Why? Because spanking is no longer effective. James Dobson is a great parenting author. The New Dare To Dicipline is an excellent book. I found it on Bookshare.org. Also, Parenting With Lour and Logic by Jim Faye is good too. I agree with previous posters that this is one more way we are being "conditioned." The Bible says that one of the signs of the end tmes is children turning against their parents. Gee, with a law such as this, I wonder why?
I meant The New Dare To Discipline, and Parenting With Love and Logic. Sorry.
James Dobson is a scary, scary man. I'd sooner take parenting advice from the crack whore on my corner than from him.
LOL, can someone fill me in here? I'm not known for reading child care books...I more lean towards articles and Web sites, so, I don't know anything about this James Dobbson? Maybe I'll go look him up, but a brief overview might help.
James Dobson is an ultra-conservative, ultra-Christian "doctor". If you've ever heard of "Focus on the family" radio programs, he's the guy behind them. He toes the typical conservative/fundamentalist Christian line, and that just hurts my crunchy granola sensibilities.:) I mean to each his own, but the day I use Dobson's parental suggestions will be the day pigs have wings.
LOL, nope, never heard of them...Hmm, definitely going to have to look him up. Doesn't sound like my cup of tea, but curiosity is getting the better of me.
Even if I decide not to take any of the suggestions from the book or only a very few of them I don't want to refuse to read it all together. I won't speak out against something until I am fully aware of the arguement for it as I hate people who do that to things in which I believe strongly. I will respect and listen to someone who disagrees with me who at least understands the arguements on both sides of the issue, but I won't waste my time on someone who knows nothing about that they are railing against and simply bleets out blindly lines that they have heard others use. So for that reason I am going to at least read one of his books. If any one is interested there is a book from a different, but not radically so, perspective by Dr. a real doctor this time, not just a man with a non-medical doctoral degree, T Berry Brazelton. It's called Diciplin the Brazelton way.
Makes since. *smile* That's partly why I've tried looking him up, and gotten no where. Oh, I can find the books, but not going to invest in buying books at the moment, and besides, I'm not waisting money when I may not appreciate the methods discussed.
Dobson's very closed-minded, and definitely blindly conservative. I mean, I'm conservative in some ways, liberal in others...I believe in spanking, but conditionally. Spanking is ineffective once a kid can actually reason, and really distinguish between right and wrong...It's the age old debate, disciplin VS punishment.
I think spanking should be put back in public schools, Because It will teach kids a lesson! And May! Just Maybe! They'll act write, And get their school work done. But do you think teachers should spank as well as the prenceable?
No, if teachers had the right to spank, they could too easily abuse their power. They could spank a child because of their race or something like that and get away with it. The principal should have the right to do that though, but this should only take place in elementary schools when the kids are still impressionable.
Yah, But Thats whye in High school, kids are so disrespectful to the teacher, I mean Highschool kids talking back to the teacher, Bringing guns to school, That what's wrong with kids today! And I no when I was a kid I al most got spanked! Man! The 80s was a good decaid! Atleast we had good parents that taught us write from wrong, I mean, When My brother or I got in trouble, My parents would spank us with a Buelt! And that taught a lesson!